Ellen and I just got a brochure from the illustrious Howard Alan consortium. It seems now, that Mr. Alan, in challenging times. has decided to escalate his booth fees up to $475 for a number of his so-so 2-day shows. State Street in Ann Arbor just raised their jury fees up to hog-heaven highs. I never seen so much greed in tough times as we are seeing from promoters right now. Anybody got some insight?
You need to be a member of Art Fair Insiders to add comments!
Since I started the shows been in decline. All the booth and jury fees keep going up. The gross and net income keeps going down. In all this back and forward comes to simple solution do not do the show if the booth fee and expenses are to high to make up. Find another show to replace that show. SO HOW I AM IN OUTER SPACE. This is nothing new to me I only done shows for the last 14 years and my wife ask me this same question three or four times a year. Eight years ago I took a full time job to balance these times. I still try to do 10 to 15 shows a year plus galleries shows.
I did not want to mention this, The only person that will make money at the show with out a doubt is the promoters. That always had been and will be case. Don't expect booth fees going down b/c it wont happen and if they do just wait until next time we all are making money and the booth will jump.
If we start choosing other shows those promoters will get our point of view. So please stop crying, the only reason we do the shows is b/c we enjoy doing them. It relax you and you feel like you not the only crazy one. If you start thinking about the time, work, expenses, jury fees, booth fees, comments of the people at the shows, promoters, etc we will not be doing these art fairs.
Well, that was certainly an interesting read. I'm a total newbie and so I have little to offer. Since I have little to compare previous years to, I don't know if prices for jurying are high/low/middle (or perhaps mean) or if the jury fees are just a way to rip me off for another 25/50 bucks. I never have seen the "gravy days" that you guys are referring to and maybe I'll get to see them in the future. I do know though that it's tough to make a business model out, based on what I've experienced so far, that ends up with a bottom line that could support me.
Thanks for having such an open an honest discussion. It really has given me some things to think about and to consider before sending out those applications.
I was a robotics programmer before I walked away from the corporate world to do this. Back then you didn't have programs to do the math for you. You did all the trig yourself.
If your destination points for those robots were more than .0015 inch off, they didn't work. You wanna talk about math?
Now if you want to split hairs, go ahead. I'm too laid back today to worry about that stuff. So go ahead and be our teacher and put a red mark on my paper.
I sign up for a show, and if I make enough money to make me happy in today's economy, I'll go back. Otherwise, I don't. It's just that simple.
William S. Eickhorst said:
Chris, Munks, Nels:
The point is simply that if you are going to use any form of numerical analysis in your decision-making process, it it imperative that you interpret the data correctly! If you don't, you are guilty of using "number magic" or as it is sometimes refered to as "fuzzy math." By all means, please feel free to break all the rules you want in art, or even in grammar and syntax, but you can't break the rules in math! I think there is sufficient empirical evidence to support the popular notion that mathematics is not the strong suit of most artists.
Can you ever get through a discussion without having a condescending comment William? We've all learned you know little about art shows, but have tried to keep the personal attacks to a minimum.
William S. Eickhorst said:
Sorry Munks, your professor didn't prove squat - other than how easy it is to dupe people who have little or no conceptual understanding of mathematical principles. There are, unfortunately for people with your level of mathematical understanding, literally dozens of such examples available. Whether you like it or not, 2+2 will always equal 4 even if your math professor "proves" otherwise. You might want to dig out some of those old college math books and re-examine what constitutes a mathematical proof. Lots of luck with that book on Creative Math you are working on.
Way out of line Barbara. no way was or ever has Nels bullied ANYONE on this forum. He was one of the first members and has helped out everyone greatly over the last year - on this forum and at art shows. Perhaps you are looking in the mirror when you call him rude, un happy, grumpy et al. I hope your signoff is accurate!
Art on the Lawn: Barbara Berney said:
Hoo, boy. Nels, get over yourself. You are entitled to your opinions, but you are NOT entitled to flame and bully anyone who doesn't agree with you. You're no better than any of the rest of us and you've no right to drive others off the site just because you're an angry, rude, unhappy, grumpy old man. And BTW, drinking too much doesn't excuse your loathsome behavior. If you'd choose being happy over being right once in a while, you might learn a little humility.
I'm outta here.
Nels Johnson said:
Nice try Oscar, but you are in outer space on that one. If artists are having declining grosses overall, which is what is happening now, then booth fees should not be increasing. So sorry you can,t get into Plaza it is a really great show.
Oscar Matos Linares said:
The true is nobody is forcing us to apply to a show. If we choose to do a show is our choice. I choose not apply to some shows b/c the show is not producing good results for me. I do not apply to some shows b/c I try some many times to get jury that I got to try something else(This is I choose not to apply to La Plaza). So please, If we are making your annual goal in profit who cares how you get there. Everything has go up in price. If you feel you can not make it please get what people call "a real job" that way the rest of us we get your piece of the pie.
We have enough to worry with producing new quality work, improve our sales, etc and most of things is nothing we can do about it. Just worry about what you can control and everything else will fall in place.
Cheez, Louise Barbara. First I am not drinking, nor unhappy, or even grumpy--but what you seem to refuse to acknowledge is the fact that i stated simple business logic which some of you are having a hard time to comprehend, ie. rising expenses versus declining grosses is not a good equation for doing business, and unless i am wrong, that is exactly what we are seeing right now. If those simple facts are driving someone off the site, don,t blame me. Take your vinegar elsewhere and feed it to the flies.
Art on the Lawn: Barbara Berney said:
Hoo, boy. Nels, get over yourself. You are entitled to your opinions, but you are NOT entitled to flame and bully anyone who doesn't agree with you. You're no better than any of the rest of us and you've no right to drive others off the site just because you're an angry, rude, unhappy, grumpy old man. And BTW, drinking too much doesn't excuse your loathsome behavior. If you'd choose being happy over being right once in a while, you might learn a little humility.
I'm outta here.
Nels Johnson said:
Nice try Oscar, but you are in outer space on that one. If artists are having declining grosses overall, which is what is happening now, then booth fees should not be increasing. So sorry you can,t get into Plaza it is a really great show.
Oscar Matos Linares said:
The true is nobody is forcing us to apply to a show. If we choose to do a show is our choice. I choose not apply to some shows b/c the show is not producing good results for me. I do not apply to some shows b/c I try some many times to get jury that I got to try something else(This is I choose not to apply to La Plaza). So please, If we are making your annual goal in profit who cares how you get there. Everything has go up in price. If you feel you can not make it please get what people call "a real job" that way the rest of us we get your piece of the pie.
We have enough to worry with producing new quality work, improve our sales, etc and most of things is nothing we can do about it. Just worry about what you can control and everything else will fall in place.
Nice try Oscar, but you are in outer space on that one. If artists are having declining grosses overall, which is what is happening now, then booth fees should not be increasing. So sorry you can,t get into Plaza it is a really great show.
Oscar Matos Linares said:
The true is nobody is forcing us to apply to a show. If we choose to do a show is our choice. I choose not apply to some shows b/c the show is not producing good results for me. I do not apply to some shows b/c I try some many times to get jury that I got to try something else(This is I choose not to apply to La Plaza). So please, If we are making your annual goal in profit who cares how you get there. Everything has go up in price. If you feel you can not make it please get what people call "a real job" that way the rest of us we get your piece of the pie.
We have enough to worry with producing new quality work, improve our sales, etc and most of things is nothing we can do about it. Just worry about what you can control and everything else will fall in place.
The true is nobody is forcing us to apply to a show. If we choose to do a show is our choice. I choose not apply to some shows b/c the show is not producing good results for me. I do not apply to some shows b/c I try some many times to get jury that I got to try something else(This is I choose not to apply to La Plaza). So please, If we are making your annual goal in profit who cares how you get there. Everything has go up in price. If you feel you can not make it please get what people call "a real job" that way the rest of us we get your piece of the pie.
We have enough to worry with producing new quality work, improve our sales, etc and most of things is nothing we can do about it. Just worry about what you can control and everything else will fall in place.
I once had a professor in college actually prove mathematically that you have a better chance of winning the lottery by NOT buying a ticket than any given person that did buy a ticket. We all know that is not possible, but I'll be damned if she didn't do the whole calculation math thing and in fact proved it. So, if I buy a lottery ticket and win the lottery, did I break the math "rules"? I'm not saying, I'm just saying. . .
William S. Eickhorst said:
Chris, Munks, Nels:
The point is simply that if you are going to use any form of numerical analysis in your decision-making process, it it imperative that you interpret the data correctly! If you don't, you are guilty of using "number magic" or as it is sometimes refered to as "fuzzy math." By all means, please feel free to break all the rules you want in art, or even in grammar and syntax, but you can't break the rules in math! I think there is sufficient empirical evidence to support the popular notion that mathematics is not the strong suit of most artists.
Fortunately, I know a promoter who works the area in Tarpon Springs, FL. Howard is doing an event there this weekend. She knows for a fact, how much he pays the sponsor (TS Chamber) to "lease" the location. In that area, you may not just go in and get a permit for an event, it has to be sponsored by a 501C. Thus, the spread of advertising in the St. Pete times (another sponsor) is already covered. So, his expenses are minimual, not including port o lets and other variables. Advertising with the brochures are part of the business. If you like lining his pocket, then do so. Only YOU can force the fees down and he is still going to make a bushel full of money. Once, she overheard him laughingly say to the - then- chamber president, after the event was up and running, "Well, we kept the rift raft out again". How about this quote from another Florida promoter who was showing his new motorcoach to a friend: "Look at what these stupid crafters bought me". It's just luck that show vendors over hear these things.
You are right Nells, nothing but greed. What's wrong with a massive boycott?? He'll get the picture if no one applies for the events.
Replies
I did not want to mention this, The only person that will make money at the show with out a doubt is the promoters. That always had been and will be case. Don't expect booth fees going down b/c it wont happen and if they do just wait until next time we all are making money and the booth will jump.
If we start choosing other shows those promoters will get our point of view. So please stop crying, the only reason we do the shows is b/c we enjoy doing them. It relax you and you feel like you not the only crazy one. If you start thinking about the time, work, expenses, jury fees, booth fees, comments of the people at the shows, promoters, etc we will not be doing these art fairs.
Thanks for having such an open an honest discussion. It really has given me some things to think about and to consider before sending out those applications.
If your destination points for those robots were more than .0015 inch off, they didn't work. You wanna talk about math?
Now if you want to split hairs, go ahead. I'm too laid back today to worry about that stuff. So go ahead and be our teacher and put a red mark on my paper.
I sign up for a show, and if I make enough money to make me happy in today's economy, I'll go back. Otherwise, I don't. It's just that simple.
William S. Eickhorst said:
William S. Eickhorst said:
Art on the Lawn: Barbara Berney said:
Art on the Lawn: Barbara Berney said:
Oscar Matos Linares said:
We have enough to worry with producing new quality work, improve our sales, etc and most of things is nothing we can do about it. Just worry about what you can control and everything else will fall in place.
William S. Eickhorst said:
You are right Nells, nothing but greed. What's wrong with a massive boycott?? He'll get the picture if no one applies for the events.
-
1
-
2
-
3
-
4
-
5
of 8 Next