Rising booth fees. Where is this going?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Alice Hunt on February 11, 2010 at 1:58pm

These people don't have a clue. I am not doing shows with fees that I feel would be more than a certain percentage of what I usually take in at a fair. There are some good shows I haven't done because of that, but I am busy enough. I am experimenting with the internet to expand my sales. Some shows (crafty crafty ones) need to go out of business as there are way too many. Too many shows, dilutes the customer base, too high fees make others not worth doing. There should be a shake out during this down turn. As long as there are "vendors" who will pay the price they will raise the fees. If they can't get exhibitors maybe they will get the message and lower them.

Permalink Reply by Chris Hoyt on February 12, 2010 at 7:28am

Don't forget about CGS as well as traveling expenses and sales tax.

Nels,

What does sales tax have to do with anything? You collect the tax on the sale of the work, so that has no bearing on the success or failure of a show.

It is still about pure promoter greed and spineless artists who will support these promoters.

And as always, if you believe the cost of the show is too expensive for the return on that investment, you toss the app in the circular file.

Right now those former $5,000 shows are bringing in $2,500 in sales. We're all feeling it. It makes no difference what we create, or manufacture, or resell, we're all hurting. Shows are down. Why? I was told this in the early 80s during a bad recession when things were bad too.

There's nothing at a show anybody NEEDS. !

That little ditty has gotten me through a number of recessions. Because on average we have a recession every seven years.

We are always the first to slow down when the economy gets soft, and the last to pick up when the economy recovers. Because everything we sell is an impulse purchase. And if they don't have the money, they don't have the money.

Like everybody else, I have bills every month. So I grit my teeth and accept the fact my sales are gonna be slower. I just do more shows to make the same money I did a few years ago, and hope I can physically survive.

I can't afford to pass on a $2,500 show. Because that's $2,500 more than if I sat home in front of the woodstove.

And I will admit I still do some shows even though they are nowhere near the moneymakers they were in the past, simply because I love doing those particular shows. I meet old friends, make some money and restore my sanity.

And doing a show for the sheer enjoyment of doing a show is better than drugs any day!

Permalink Reply by Jim Rasmussen on February 12, 2010 at 6:04pm

Not to mention $50 late fees if you have not paid your balance 30 days out.

Permalink Reply by Chris Hoyt on February 13, 2010 at 7:52am

Some shows (crafty crafty ones) need to go out of business as there are way too many.

Alice, those shows are the backbone of this industry.

These are the shows where the space fee is usually under $100. $50 to $75 is the norm. So if the crafter makes $400 or $500 they are very happy and rate the show a success. An overwhelming majority of crafters at these shows are part timers making extra money, or retirees subsidizing their Social Security.

Sometimes there's a show like this nearby and I'll have an open weekend. So I'll sign up knowing I won't make much (if any) money. But I'm with a group of people who don't have egos. I in essence go back 30 years to where I started out. And realize at that level, things haven't changed one bit. Nobody takes themselves seriously. Laughter is a big part of the day.

Like I said in another post. I'll do these shows for the sheer enjoyment of doing shows. So when I do a major show where somebody thinks they're the main reason the customers are there, I just let them enjoy their fantasy world.

Permalink Reply by Michelle Sholund on February 14, 2010 at 5:39pm

Nels, I love the can of worms you open! These are squirmy ones!

But my take on your question is this. I was selling at shows for a while, yet I hardly consider myself a veteran at 7 years. So, to make a long story short I was upset over growing booth fees (this was in 2007) and thought why not start my own art fair - by myself (with some help with my husband). We knew - along with the advice from others, the best way to figure your expenses is add up the price of the rental of the venue with insurance + advertising fees (and I mean all of them) + office supplies including phone bill expenses, website expenses and toner + your time (which is always under valued) and any other misc. expenses (award money could go into this category). Now when you have that total you need to divide that by however many MAXIMUM spaces you can possible fit within the venue (and venue can be a park, convention center, street...). And that is pretty much how you figure your booth fees. Now if you are lucky - you have sponsorships, grants, donations, fund raisers, and some nest egg money to get things to aid in expenses. But what most artists fail to realize is the profit comes from things like concession stands albeit sales of t-shirts or food or donations at the event as well as admission tickets. This is a basic formula so you can have an idea for how to estimate the expenses of an art fair. There are other factors, but really as years go by expenses are raised. Fees for permits, fees for utilities go up, expand on current advertising - those fees go up too. If a show is only getting a flat income (that doesn't increase) each year yet if expenses grow, they start looking at what can they cut or what fees can they raise. One of the common answers is raise the booth fees - and logically if a show has a wonderful following and reputation - paying a little more won't break the bank. However, those that don't have the reputation - I really think they need to re-think their expenses.

Even though we are feeling the pinch of not earning much profit, I really feel the promoters are doing the same - the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, I think. There is a trickle down effect - patrons have less money to spend and therefore don't go to as many shows and don't spend as they used to, less artists are able to make a decent living making any kind of decent profit at shows as their expenses grow too, and this hurts promoters because it all affects the dynamics/reputation of the show. And the sad thing is - there really isn't anyone to blame (except maybe politics??)

Nels, fees are going up here in the Mid-Atlantic- some just a little, some a lot. I believe Sugarloaf is doing that - at least I always thought their fees were too excessive - and the quality of shows are doing down. Now this doesn't convince me to apply to their shows - granted they do bring the crowds. We can only hope and stick it out as well as invest our money wisely with shows that do offer price breaks, money back incentives and so on. I would rather give my money to the shows that really work with artists than against them. Viva la revolution! - Michelle

Permalink Reply by Shalana on February 15, 2010 at 6:55pm

Thank you Chris! I agree.

As a total newbie to this forum, many of the other posts are quite discouraging. Although I truly believe that my fine felted wearables would fit in very well at most national juried art fairs, with the attitudes and egos of some of those who vend at such fairs, I don't think that I'd even enjoy being an exhibitor. I already sell very well online and am on a course to open my own fiber studio and shop in the near future. I had hoped to have a nice experience and try doing some larger juried shows. I guess that I am just low class and should stick with my "crafty, crafty ones" where my fellow vendors are a joy to chat with and the customers are excited to be there and friendly. After browsing the forum here for information (and there is good information here), I don't believe that I'm cut out for any other kind.

Also, I've been selling online quite a while now with good success as well as blogging about my art form. I think that there is something for making a good name for yourself and being well established in the "cyberland" of artists and crafters so to speak. The new age of indie craft shows is really taking hold with the younger 20's and 30's something crowds that communicate readily via the web. It *is* the future of arts/crafts shows, and it is largely based online. I have done very well at a couple of these large indie style "crafty, crafty" shows too (in the thousands of dollars range and not just hundreds by the way). They are not going away any time soon, and I sincerely believe that in another decade or so, they will be wildly popular and a good source of income for younger newbie artists like myself. Just because I am a younger artist and newbie to some things, I am certainly a veteran to others it seems in comparison...


Chris Hoyt said:

Some shows (crafty crafty ones) need to go out of business as there are way too many.
Alice, those shows are the backbone of this industry. These are the shows where the space fee is usually under $100. $50 to $75 is the norm. So if the crafter makes $400 or $500 they are very happy and rate the show a success. An overwhelming majority of crafters at these shows are part timers making extra money, or retirees subsidizing their Social Security. Sometimes there's a show like this nearby and I'll have an open weekend. So I'll sign up knowing I won't make much (if any) money. But I'm with a group of people who don't have egos. I in essence go back 30 years to where I started out. And realize at that level, things haven't changed one bit. Nobody takes themselves seriously. Laughter is a big part of the day.

Like I said in another post. I'll do these shows for the sheer enjoyment of doing shows. So when I do a major show where somebody thinks they're the main reason the customers are there, I just let them enjoy their fantasy world.

Permalink Reply by Connie Mettler on February 15, 2010 at 9:30pm

Shalana, I love the energy of the indie shows and am so glad you are here to represent this segment of this sprawling business. Selling online is definitely another answer -- so we have online business, etsy businesses, crafty crafty show, indie shows, mom and pop shows, pop up gallery events, middle of the road quality events and the high end shows -- what a great variety, and here we are altogether sharing our background and approach. Another venue that hasn't been talked about here is craft sections of farmers markets -- another outlet that can work for many.

There is great energy around the indie events and they are definitely building another audience of art fair patrons.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread - from all the facets of art fair world. Thanks Chris, Michelle, Mark, Phil, Barbara -- the variety of your backgrounds is what makes this forum work.

Still...these fees are stiff and one wonders if they are a result of real need on the part of the organizers to keep the ball rolling or if they are a shot in the dark let's see "what the traffic will bear."

Permalink Reply by Munks on February 15, 2010 at 10:26pm

"Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread - from all the facets of art fair world. Thanks Chris, Michelle, Mark, Phil, Barbara -- the variety of your backgrounds is what makes this forum work."

Oh no need for thanks - I was just. . . Hey! - Wait a minute . . .

Connie Mettler said:

Shalana, I love the energy of the indie shows and am so glad you are here to represent this segment of this sprawling business. Selling online is definitely another answer -- so we have online business, etsy businesses, crafty crafty show, indie shows, mom and pop shows, pop up gallery events, middle of the road quality events and the high end shows -- what a great variety, and here we are altogether sharing our background and approach. Another venue that hasn't been talked about here is craft sections of farmers markets -- another outlet that can work for many.
There is great energy around the indie events and they are definitely building another audience of art fair patrons. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread - from all the facets of art fair world. Thanks Chris, Michelle, Mark, Phil, Barbara -- the variety of your backgrounds is what makes this forum work. Still...these fees are stiff and one wonders if they are a result of real need on the part of the organizers to keep the ball rolling or if they are a shot in the dark let's see "what the traffic will bear."

Permalink Reply by Debbie Moyer on February 26, 2010 at 8:20pm

Someone made a comment in a post I read that artists and other groups are getting together to start their own shows. It happens that a friend of mine is in the process of trying to put a show together.

A bit of history. An artist association in a nearby town has been putting on an art show for many years. It was always held in a small, quaint community that sits on a lake in NY state. Always had very good traffic, good sales, etc. Pulled many boaters from the lake, as well as lots of traffic from many neighboring towns. It is across the lake from the Chautauqua Institute, which is a cultural institute that has been around for over 100 years. People pay mega bucks to stay there during the "season". Lots of disposable income. Anyway, approx. 10 years ago a member of the artist association had a disagreement with the mayor of the town and the association ended up moving the show to another location on the lake. The show has struggled along since. My friend, a watercolorist, who has participated in this show for years, has tried to convince the association that they should consider going back to the previous location. The majority of the people on the board are elderly (and I mean elderly) and are just not interested in doing anything different or making any changes.

She took the bull by the horns and contact the mayor of the town, who was thrilled about the idea of having an artist show back - he has offered us 2 weekends for the upcoming season, 1 in July and 1 in August. This will not be a big show, rather small with 25 - 30 artists in a small park right in the middle of town - all traffic (pedestrian and vehicle) passes by this park. It sets right next to the largest hotel in the town. By the way, there is a big boat show that 1st weekend, so we should see additional traffic from that as well.

Needless to say, we are trying to keep expenses down as low as possible. Many of us are donating time, office supplies, etc., to help her get this going. The fee to the artists will be mininal, basically enough to help us cover paid advertising. We have been able to get free advertising thru a number of local newspapers, etc. One of the artists is designing posters, ;I am supplying the paper, another artist is printing them, etc.

What we are trying to do is create a more casual, less rigid environment for the artists to display and sell their work. A number of artist will be doing demos as well. Hoping that the atmosphere will feel good to the patrons as well. We are very excited about this venture, and very nervous as well. Should be very interesting. Wish us luck - we will see what happens.

Debbie

Permalink Reply by Pauline Ross on February 26, 2010 at 10:15pm

I have seen a few shows raise prices in the last couple years. This year, most are the same fee as last year but personally I am considering doing a handful of shows. The audience is just not participating enough. I have been asking other artist friends what shows they are doing and I was shocked one completely went out of business and the other is doing zipp because last year was a loss. Well around here in Virginia it was for many. Now our state is facing a huge budget cut for the arts and that will surely devastate artists, performing arts, musicians, etc. Imagine, Virginia will be the ONLY state in the USA to be stupid enough to make such a huge budget cut. Shame on them!
I am curious if there is training somewhere to become a show promoter? Michele and Barabara could write a book on the subject I think. lol But seriously, it might be worth learning how its done if some of these promoters here cease to exist in 2011 and I do not want to learn from locals.

Permalink Reply by Pauline Ross on February 27, 2010 at 6:41pm

Oh gosh what a dismal state of affairs Illinois is in. Well I have to give you credit Barbara for keeping it going. (the shows)

Art on the Lawn said:

Pauline,

In Illinois, where the state is facing a 12.8 billion budget deficit, they have already cut funding of the arts to the bone, and now they're talking about cutting out completely whatever funding is left. The Illinois Arts Council will cease to exist, and many other entities dependent upon state funding will fold. It's extremely short-sighted of our legislators, but they are at a loss to know what to do.

As I stated before, my one day show has not raised fees since 2005. The two-day show booth fee has gone up for the first time in years because it was too low to even allow us to break even. Without the increase, we would not be able to continue holding the show.

With the economy in the toilet (Rockford has the dubious distinction of being Forbes' 14th most miserable city in the US), there is a lot of uncertainty about the future of all the shows in our region. With unemployment so high (17%) and an even higher jobless rate, who will come out to buy our art? Everyone is waiting and watching.



Pauline Ross said:

I have seen a few shows raise prices in the last couple years. This year, most are the same fee as last year but personally I am considering doing a handful of shows. The audience is just not participating enough. I have been asking other artist friends what shows they are doing and I was shocked one completely went out of business and the other is doing zipp because last year was a loss. Well around here in Virginia it was for many. Now our state is facing a huge budget cut for the arts and that will surely devastate artists, performing arts, musicians, etc. Imagine, Virginia will be the ONLY state in the USA to be stupid enough to make such a huge budget cut. Shame on them!
I am curious if there is training somewhere to become a show promoter? Michele and Barabara could write a book on the subject I think. lol But seriously, it might be worth learning how its done if some of these promoters here cease to exist in 2011 and I do not want to learn from locals.

Permalink Reply by Nels Johnson on March 3, 2010 at 6:02pm

Keep me posted on the development of this show.In the 80s and early 90s I did the Chautaqua Show a number of times--then the committee said no photographers allowed. Probably, because we were having more fun than others--Aloha, Nels Johnson

Debbie Moyer said:

Someone made a comment in a post I read that artists and other groups are getting together to start their own shows. It happens that a friend of mine is in the process of trying to put a show together.

A bit of history. An artist association in a nearby town has been putting on an art show for many years. It was always held in a small, quaint community that sits on a lake in NY state. Always had very good traffic, good sales, etc. Pulled many boaters from the lake, as well as lots of traffic from many neighboring towns. It is across the lake from the Chautauqua Institute, which is a cultural institute that has been around for over 100 years. People pay mega bucks to stay there during the "season". Lots of disposable income. Anyway, approx. 10 years ago a member of the artist association had a disagreement with the mayor of the town and the association ended up moving the show to another location on the lake. The show has struggled along since. My friend, a watercolorist, who has participated in this show for years, has tried to convince the association that they should consider going back to the previous location. The majority of the people on the board are elderly (and I mean elderly) and are just not interested in doing anything different or making any changes.

She took the bull by the horns and contact the mayor of the town, who was thrilled about the idea of having an artist show back - he has offered us 2 weekends for the upcoming season, 1 in July and 1 in August. This will not be a big show, rather small with 25 - 30 artists in a small park right in the middle of town - all traffic (pedestrian and vehicle) passes by this park. It sets right next to the largest hotel in the town. By the way, there is a big boat show that 1st weekend, so we should see additional traffic from that as well.

Needless to say, we are trying to keep expenses down as low as possible. Many of us are donating time, office supplies, etc., to help her get this going. The fee to the artists will be mininal, basically enough to help us cover paid advertising. We have been able to get free advertising thru a number of local newspapers, etc. One of the artists is designing posters, ;I am supplying the paper, another artist is printing them, etc.

What we are trying to do is create a more casual, less rigid environment for the artists to display and sell their work. A number of artist will be doing demos as well. Hoping that the atmosphere will feel good to the patrons as well. We are very excited about this venture, and very nervous as well. Should be very interesting. Wish us luck - we will see what happens.

Debbie

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