Who's going to the St. Louis open jury?

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Permalink Reply by Larry Berman on March 17, 2010 at 7:49am

Look for non consistent sized images being projected. This will be an example of the ZAPP image formatting fiasco that hasn't been fixed yet. I saw some artist's images projected smaller at the Cherry Creek jury.

Larry Berman
Digital Jury Services
http://BermanGraphics.com
412-401-8100

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Permalink Reply by Linnea Lahlum on March 17, 2010 at 12:56pm

It's a bit out of my range. Let us know afterward what you thought, ok? If it's 3-4 hours then I go.

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Permalink Reply by Munks on March 17, 2010 at 7:59pm

I'd rather watch a lottery drawing - every ticket holder has the same chance, every ticket holder knows what is expected before making the purchase, the ticket holder doesn't have to pay a booth fee if they win, and it only costs a dollar.

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Permalink Reply by Munks on March 18, 2010 at 10:35am

As an artist that earns a living and is raising a family making and selling art, I wonder how many artists are not attending because: (1) they did not want to pay the FORTY dollar jury fee - complete with little to no feedback, (2) to win an "opportunity" to pay $625-$725 for, (3) an opportunity to try to sell to the good people of St Louis, (4) who will (and do) attend and purchase beautiful works of art at the many other fine shows in the area throughout the season that, (5) just happen to not have as high a recidivisim rate as the Clayton show, and (6) where the customers have verbalized they feel they have an opportunity to consider purchasing work without being crushed by a throng of looky-lou's that want to thank each and every artist for "sharing their work this weekend".

My best guesstimate is since 50 will be in St Louis, then about 9,950 artists have more profitable and productive things to do than go watch how honest and transparent a show is - since the show is expected and has a fiduciary responsibility to be honest and forthright to the artists that lay down forty bucks anyway!

Yeah, yeah - it's a great show, it's a privilege to be there, it's just wonderful. . . How're the sales? A forty dollar jury fee - really? Really? $625 for a booth in Clayton? Really? With a straight face - really??? Perhaps it would be more prudent to do some other show in St Louis and buy a lottery ticket. Better odds, better business.

Don't get mad, just think about it.

Cindy Lerick said:

As the executive director of Cultural Festivals,(producers of the Saint Louis Art Fair), we have 50 rsvp's as of this evening. Some are coming from Vermont, North Carolina and the greater St Louis area.

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Permalink Reply by Munks on March 18, 2010 at 12:19pm

I completely agree with you, the choices artists (and patrons) make will determine the success or failure of any show.

End of what story?

Munks




Cindy Lerick said:

Munk..
Everyone has choices. You choose not to..

End ofStory!

Good Luck and hopefully you will have a great season.

Cindy


Munks said:

As an artist that earns a living and is raising a family making and selling art, I wonder how many artists are not attending because: (1) they did not want to pay the FORTY dollar jury fee - complete with little to no feedback, (2) to win an "opportunity" to pay $625-$725 for, (3) an opportunity to try to sell to the good people of St Louis, (4) who will (and do) attend and purchase beautiful works of art at the many other fine shows in the area throughout the season that, (5) just happen to not have as high a recidivisim rate as the Clayton show, and (6) where the customers have verbalized they feel they have an opportunity to consider purchasing work without being crushed by a throng of looky-lou's that want to thank each and every artist for "sharing their work this weekend".

My best guesstimate is since 50 will be in St Louis, then about 9,950 artists have more profitable and productive things to do than go watch how honest and transparent a show is - since the show is expected and has a fiduciary responsibility to be honest and forthright to the artists that lay down forty bucks anyway!

Yeah, yeah - it's a great show, it's a privilege to be there, it's just wonderful. . . How're the sales? A forty dollar jury fee - really? Really? $625 for a booth in Clayton? Really? With a straight face - really??? Perhaps it would be more prudent to do some other show in St Louis and buy a lottery ticket. Better odds, better business.

Don't get mad, just think about it.

Cindy Lerick said:

As the executive director of Cultural Festivals,(producers of the Saint Louis Art Fair), we have 50 rsvp's as of this evening. Some are coming from Vermont, North Carolina and the greater St Louis area.

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Permalink Reply by Munks on March 19, 2010 at 10:53am

Oh Holly!

Thank you for sharing your unbiased, completely neutral, and totally independent thoughts with the artists here on this forum regarding the first round of jurying for the St. Louis Art Fair! I for one, feel sooooo much more warm and comfy knowing that all's well with the first round of the Clayton jury based on your observation! I also know that I will simply sleep like a log tonight knowing that Zapp is on the job and has my back covered! And mentioning the NAIA too - such a fine, fine organization - it's as if I felt a nice warm hug of reassurance!

I hope you remembered to apply to Clayton this year and if you did - I hope you have a great show. . . But if not, I'm sure you'll remember to apply next year. I went ahead and put a reminder in my Blackberry for next year so I won't forget to remind you in case you forget for some reason to apply next year. Maybe I'll apply next year too and we'll see each other there and have a shot of Jameson for the Clayton show, Zapp, the NAIA, and - um, Cindy!

No need to thank me! I'm just trying to help!

(Now, where did I put my Tylenol?)



Holly Olinger said:

The preview last night was incredibly instructional. I am very impressed with the thorough description of the jury process, the way this show is organized and worked by 1200 volunteers and the very accessible attitude of the staff present at the preview. ZAPP also had staff at this event and they too appear to be open to discussion of the 1920X format concerns. I drove 12 hrs to see this and feel it was a good investment for myself and my volunteer commitments for NAIA.
It was interesting to see that the selection process starts with a simple yes/no/maybe vote instead of the numerical count some juries use. The staff will have to work very hard to keep up with the jury over the course of the weekend.
Thanks to Cindy for being a welcoming host and a good communicator.

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Permalink Reply by Munks on March 21, 2010 at 2:02am

Holly, Holly, Holly:

Soooooo, you're a psychiatrist too? I do hope you are a better artist than a psychiatrist. And, before I forget - why do you assume I am a man? Hmmmm?

On to more important things to respond to in your note.

I maintain that the shows are EXPECTED to have transparent jurying THROUGHOUT the process, not some PR stunt to have everyone nod in agreement and bow before the folks running the mega-shows - all so that maybe, just maybe we individually may get a piece of the legendary pie in the sky. The expectation is based on paying hard-earned money to be part of the process. We pay doctors and expect them to treat illness, we pay lawyers and expect them to be our advocate, we pay accountants to handle our books ethically, we pay show ranking systems to be honest whether the publisher of the ranking system got into the show or not, hell - we pay the damn Girl Scouts to deliver our cookies on time - but can we count on the shows to behave as ethically? We absolutely should - and we don't need a Barnum & Bailey event to make that happen!

I really believe that 85%-90% of the shows are run by GOOD and SMART people that know what they are doing and really try to make each show better. There are promoters in Minneapolis, Chicagoland, Indianapolis, and St Louis that are absolutely outstanding! There are many more all over the place. The canary in the coal mine to me is this: When the jury supposedly changes every year and the recidivism rate is noticeable year after year AND no (and I mean "no") indication of what the jurors were looking for is given before the application is sent, AND little if any feedback is given by the show (other than "please apply next year"), and the show is littered with buy/sell, car dealers, window treatment companies, etc., etc. ad nauseum - then something is not right, i.e. it is a slap in the face of our vocation or industry or whatever term you want to use and there is not a a PR stunt in the world that will impress me into thinking anything other than "don't give them any more money". Your new friend Cindy from Clayton understands this, that's why she swept me and my uppity opinions under the rug and subsequently told the world what she thinks of folks that are starting to ask questions.

Get over it. There is no hate here. You wrote a honey-wrapped synopsis of a NON-EVENT slathered with enough frosting to choke an elephant! Maybe over at the NAIA they advocate pulling the "you're a hater" card whenever someone doesn't think like you or agree with you or your peers - but out here in the real world where we don't drive 12 hours to watch a circus - we analyze and criticize with the help of some very basic critical thinking skills and, Holly, you left the door for criticism w-i-d-e open. There's nothing wrong with that, it's part of living - just come up with something, anything other than the tired, old, lame "you're a hater, so you're bad" defense of your opinions. Okay? Okay.

So, I take it you won't do a shot of Jameson with me?

Fine.

I know William will though. I saw some really great posts written under your name today William! Did someone steal your password?



Holly Olinger said:

You know what Munks or what ever your real name is - the sarcasm is duly noted. As to the rest of your spiel - it's so obvioius you are a bitter angry man who takes counsel from no one. What a shame.
No - I did not apply to Clayton and have no intention of doing so. It's too far away from my home and the booth fee is too high for my personal situation. That being said - I paid my own way to go to this jury - I drove more than 12 hrs and paid for 4 nights of hotels to see what their projection jury looks like. I learned a lot of things that will make me a better artist and a better board member for NAIA. I can rest in peace tonight and hope the same for you. God speed on your journey through life. You obviously need the good wishes since you are so filled with hate and anger for people you have never met. Peace - Holly

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Permalink Reply by Connie Mettler on March 21, 2010 at 9:39pm

I am more than a little nervous about some of this interchange. I do believe all should share their opinions on the site, but I am hoping that all members will respect the main rule of this forum is BE NICE. If members become what sounds to be vituperative others will not participate, will leave this site and all we have worked for will be gone. Many of you have put a lot of time and energy into building the site.

I hope everyone is intelligent enough to read behind some of the writings and not to be offended. Heaven knows I've been offended a few times. But I just spent the weekend with a 16 year old, now that is tough!

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Permalink Reply by Munks on March 22, 2010 at 1:02pm

Upon reflection, I would like to loudly and publicly apologize for teasing William in my last post on this thread. I really was complimenting him on some posts he made on another thread and I did not mean to truly insult him by insinuating that someone stole his password and therefore the posts were out of character for him. Nothing could be further from the truth - I think he has some great ideas occasionally and when he puts them forth they are interesting and thought-provoking. So again, I do apologize. It was an off-hand compliment gone awry.

As for the posts and writing back and forth with Holly and Cindy in this thread - I think an awful lot of what's awful in our business can be interpreted from their writing. While it may have been more wise to not be provoked by their snippets, I know that some very hardworking and genuine artists and promoters (and collectors!) read this forum and I think they need to know that not everyone falls for some of the um, "nonsense" that goes on in the art world. I do have a low threshold for prima donnas, posers, and "vendors", but more importantly I feel that apathy is the worst enemy of the art show universe. It's not juries, or lousy promoters, buy/sell operators, or even windy & rainy shows - apathy is our worst enemy. Apathy allows people to get pushed around and manipulated. I am somewhat dismayed that others did not weigh in on what was being said, but maybe it did do some good under the surface. People out there can think what they want of my views or my writing and I welcome intelligent criticism with open arms - but I hope no one ever describes me, my painting, or my writing as apathetic!

Munks

Connie Mettler said:

I am more than a little nervous about some of this interchange. I do believe all should share their opinions on the site, but I am hoping that all members will respect the main rule of this forum is BE NICE. If members become what sounds to be vituperative others will not participate, will leave this site and all we have worked for will be gone. Many of you have put a lot of time and energy into building the site.

I hope everyone is intelligent enough to read behind some of the writings and not to be offended. Heaven knows I've been offended a few times. But I just spent the weekend with a 16 year old, now that is tough!

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