What we can do to rid ourselfs of buy/sell

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Chris Hoyt on February 3, 2010 at 8:00am

I looked at your profile and you do excellent work. I see you have been doing this for 15 years so I'm pretty sure you know the ropes.

I take it your final straw was a community affairs show run at an outlet mall this past month. How much was the space fee? I also see you have actually gotten refunds from promoters. Good for you!! That's a definite rarity. To be honest, around here in New England, that will not happen.

But just how do we rid the shows of B/S? I found one way is to have the CUSTOMERS complain! I do some shows with a promoter out of Michigan who has gone right into the cellar when it comes to B/S. And the customers were constantly complaining in emails. So they are trying to find a solution. I can successfully compete with the B/S so I'll do the shows. They're now discounting space fees for 100% handcrafted work. We'll see.

I also do a couple of shows in NJ where the promoter did eject exhibitors during the show. Right in front of the customers. I also do shows with a promoter who insists on photos of the workspace. And one who had staged the photos was denied because the workspace was "too clean". I am doing about 12 shows with another promoter who had started allowing B/S work. She has reversed her actions and has removed people who have been with her for a number of years who have gradually inserted B/S into their booth. She now advertises true handcrafted shows and the customers are coming back.

But you must also agree that promoters are only human. Yes, some B/S will slip past the jury. Exhibitors in this business are notorious liars! Notice I did not say artists or artisans, I said exhibitors. So I go to every show in my 40+ show schedule expecting to see some B/S there. And as I have said so many times, I just deal with it. Throwing a tantrum won't make me one dime more in sales. I'll stick it out because I won't make any money driving home in my truck.

I'm actually starting to see exhibitors taking the Chinese stuff and copy them! They know they can do it better and with much higher quality. And sadly, others who aren't aware of they're doing are calling them out as B/S merchants.

So will we eliminate B/S from this business? Rots a ruck with that! So what do we do? We find promoters with a track record of doing their best to keep it out. And do as many shows with those promoters as we can. But we also must realize nobody's perfect. No jury can spot B/S 100% of the time. Unless of course it's a very high end show with a paid, blind jury. Jury members who are considered experts in their respective fields. Then exhibitors balk at the space fees for those shows.

But what does the exhibitor do? Well, for one, never believe the hype on a show application! We never sign up for a show based on some glossy pieces of paper we received in the mail. If I were to sign up based on the app from someone I never heard of, I would guarantee there will be B/S there! And go knowing and expecting it.

We as exhibitors must have a network of fellow exhibitors whom we trust to give us straight answers. And those answers must include sales numbers! I never sign up for a show based on what somebody I never met before tells me about it. I'm a metalworker, so if a jeweler says a show was lousy, was it because there were too many jewelers?And no metalworkers? I'm fortunate to have such a network of trusted friends who have the same expectations of a show as I. That network came from doing shows together for many years. We are in different media, but we can be confident about what shows we discuss. Our network has exhibitors from Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. (Hi Deb!) And if someone says "I did the Veeblefetzer Festival in Boston, we listen.

So it really comes down to this: Do we keep B/S out of shows? Or do we keep out of shows with B/S? It's much easier to do the latter.

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Permalink Reply by Larry Berman on February 3, 2010 at 10:41am

It's not just buy sell. It's also reps that are taking the spaces legitimate artists deserve, which is actually much easier to enforce then buy sell. Anyone that doesn't make the work they are selling should be closed down on the spot, and if there is time, a waiting list person called.

No names mentioned, but as a photographer, I will be the first to say that photographers are the biggest group of offenders.

Larry Berman
Digital Jury Services
http://BermanGraphics.com
412-401-8100

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Permalink Reply by skip stang on February 3, 2010 at 6:16pm

Hey Chris,
Yes sir I do agree with you almost completely,Howard Rose does a great job dealing with the B/S,and I have had a run in with Charlie Dooley and won.Yes the discount is a great idea and so is putting B/S in their own section.And no I do not have a tantrum,I make them see the point, no hollerin or cussin,just the facts.If they cant or wont enforce the rules of the contract,the point is mute.Therefore I did not receive in services from them witch I have paid for in good faith,and they will refund my money and expense`s I have incurred due to the promoters negligence and unwillingness to comply with said contract.( pretty spooky huh)
I guess I just want to get what I pay for,and not supporting the shows that do allow B/S with out being forewarned are the ones we should boycott.
My feelings are as follows..Unless the jury is comprised of working and selling artist and not participating in the show they are jurying the would be unbiased...Judges for awards are always a teacher,professor,or self proclaimed critic.Every seen one but art?But they can and do choose B/S as best in show and award merit ribbons.Our booth fee does include thier paycheck and lets the promoter off the hook.
Finally I do belive when a real artist tells me about a show not the fancy advertising.While it might have been good for them might not work for me .That's the way it is.If the promoter does thier job and the people come its up to you and your work to make it happen.We have no control over whom attends a show as a patron,so long as they do.That is the one the promoters jobs .But WE should have control over who exhibits.All real artist`s should have a chance at a slice of the pie!!!

Chris Hoyt said:

I looked at your profile and you do excellent work. I see you have been doing this for 15 years so I'm pretty sure you know the ropes.

I take it your final straw was a community affairs show run at an outlet mall this past month. How much was the space fee? I also see you have actually gotten refunds from promoters. Good for you!! That's a definite rarity. To be honest, around here in New England, that will not happen.

But just how do we rid the shows of B/S? I found one way is to have the CUSTOMERS complain! I do some shows with a promoter out of Michigan who has gone right into the cellar when it comes to B/S. And the customers were constantly complaining in emails. So they are trying to find a solution. I can successfully compete with the B/S so I'll do the shows. They're now discounting space fees for 100% handcrafted work. We'll see.

I also do a couple of shows in NJ where the promoter did eject exhibitors during the show. Right in front of the customers. I also do shows with a promoter who insists on photos of the workspace. And one who had staged the photos was denied because the workspace was "too clean". I am doing about 12 shows with another promoter who had started allowing B/S work. She has reversed her actions and has removed people who have been with her for a number of years who have gradually inserted B/S into their booth. She now advertises true handcrafted shows and the customers are coming back.

But you must also agree that promoters are only human. Yes, some B/S will slip past the jury. Exhibitors in this business are notorious liars! Notice I did not say artists or artisans, I said exhibitors. So I go to every show in my 40+ show schedule expecting to see some B/S there. And as I have said so many times, I just deal with it. Throwing a tantrum won't make me one dime more in sales. I'll stick it out because I won't make any money driving home in my truck.

I'm actually starting to see exhibitors taking the Chinese stuff and copy them! They know they can do it better and with much higher quality. And sadly, others who aren't aware of they're doing are calling them out as B/S merchants.

So will we eliminate B/S from this business? Rots a ruck with that! So what do we do? We find promoters with a track record of doing their best to keep it out. And do as many shows with those promoters as we can. But we also must realize nobody's perfect. No jury can spot B/S 100% of the time. Unless of course it's a very high end show with a paid, blind jury. Jury members who are considered experts in their respective fields. Then exhibitors balk at the space fees for those shows.

But what does the exhibitor do? Well, for one, never believe the hype on a show application! We never sign up for a show based on some glossy pieces of paper we received in the mail. If I were to sign up based on the app from someone I never heard of, I would guarantee there will be B/S there! And go knowing and expecting it.

We as exhibitors must have a network of fellow exhibitors whom we trust to give us straight answers. And those answers must include sales numbers! I never sign up for a show based on what somebody I never met before tells me about it. I'm a metalworker, so if a jeweler says a show was lousy, was it because there were too many jewelers?And no metalworkers? I'm fortunate to have such a network of trusted friends who have the same expectations of a show as I. That network came from doing shows together for many years. We are in different media, but we can be confident about what shows we discuss. Our network has exhibitors from Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. (Hi Deb!) And if someone says "I did the Veeblefetzer Festival in Boston, we listen.

So it really comes down to this: Do we keep B/S out of shows? Or do we keep out of shows with B/S? It's much easier to do the latter.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by skip stang on February 3, 2010 at 7:22pm

Yes sir Larry,the reps are yet another problem,Hudson Bay comes to mind ad there was a photo guy at south Miami a few years ago that won best in show and the next weekend he was selling pvc bow and arrows.It is unbelievable isn't it!!!

Larry Berman said:

It's not just buy sell. It's also reps that are taking the spaces legitimate artists deserve, which is actually much easier to enforce then buy sell. Anyone that doesn't make the work they are selling should be closed down on the spot, and if there is time, a waiting list person called.

No names mentioned, but as a photographer, I will be the first to say that photographers are the biggest group of offenders.

Larry Berman
Digital Jury Services
http://BermanGraphics.com
412-401-8100

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Chris Hoyt on February 4, 2010 at 7:33am

You won with Charle Dooley? Do tell. What show? I live less than 10 minutes from the Manchester, VT show.

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Permalink Reply by skip stang on February 4, 2010 at 9:20am

Real quick,Hilldean,he had brought his newborn to a show and stopped by to show the youngin off.Handed me the child,and began to tell me that wanted to charge me extra for the length of my motor home,parked in the field and that I should feel lucky that he doesn't charge more for a booth because of YOU people.His phone rings and i belive it was Leslie (not sure)and he states the is a emergence and runs off.This was noon on Sat. and the place was full of patrons.Opps he forgot the child in my arms.2 hours 7 sales later he returns and asks for the extra money,thinking fast I said'Here take this kid instead"He actually thought about it and said "well OK but just this one time".That was the last of his shows I ever did.What ever he is on is WAY better then anything I ever did.
Skip

Chris Hoyt said:

You won with Charle Dooley? Do tell. What show? I live less than 10 minutes from the Manchester, VT show.

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